Automating music discovery through algorithms has forever changed the way we learn about and consume new music. But have we lost something precious along the way?
I moved to Seattle in the summer of ’96 and left just after a year. I would not stay put. In the five years after college I’d move to Ocean City, Maryland, to my birthplace in Allentown, PA — then Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Seattle, the south of France, then back to Seattle. I didn’t have much of a music collection, but the one thing I always took wherever I moved was my small box of CDs and cassettes.
You could argue I’d moved to Seattle at the wrong time because Kurt Cobain had just died, Soundgarden had split up (the Screaming Trees too), Alice in Chains’ singer was dead, and Pearl Jam — well, the more I listened, the more I didn’t care for Pearl Jam. Mudhoney still played but they hadn’t made the scene like the others, it seemed like they were still playing in their basement. Grunge had come and gone.
But if grunge was like the smarter kid brother to metal, with its punk-like sensibilities and lyrical depth, there was still another descendant. That’s the scene I entered in ’96: heavy on the guitars and emo-like vocals, but decidedly weird. Much of the influence came from a city 75 miles south of Seattle, the state’s capital, Olympia, WA, and a former band leader who’d started an independent record label with his mom, Calvin Johnson.
K-records had been around for almost 15 years by the time I arrived to the Pacific Northwest. The way we learned about things pre-internet was a lot different then, rich with surprise. My new friend Don had turned me on to Modest Mouse, a trio from nearby Issaquah, hardly adults: their new EP featured the K-records logo on the bottom corner. You could even hear Calvin in the background vocals on some songs, his distinct baritone.
And then the band Built to Spill, on the eastern boundary of the PNW in Boise, Idaho: they had a project going with Calvin called The Halo Benders, again with that K-records logo. Beck had just made his world debut with Odelay: now here he was in Olympia recording with Calvin and cutting an indie-looking record with grainy photos and rough-sounding production.
As a young, would-be writer set loose in the wilderness I made this music my soundtrack with Calvin Johnson my inspiration. It wasn’t the music he made as much as the DIY ethos: a kind of, this-is-how-I-sound-and-I-don’t-give-a-damn sound. It seemed his mission was less about the music and more about its independence from corporate America, a middle finger to ‘the man.’
As I learned more I discovered Calvin was connected to Ian MacKaye, of Fugazi and Minor Threat fame, who’d started an independent record label on the east coast and given rise to a movement called straight edge, promoting abstinence from alcohol and other drugs, an all-ages scene where the price of admission was low (roughly $5) for a long list of performers. The emphasis was on the music, the people making it and enjoying it, not on the profits or partying.
I experienced this once at a small Seattle venue called The Velvet Elvis, where Calvin’s latest project Dub Narcotic Sound System was playing, featuring several other bands from the region. In a rare moment of live music sobriety I felt the punk DIY ethos myself when Calvin invited the audience to join the band on stage and dance at the end of the show. I rocked out beside the drummer, who just smiled and nodded at me as he drummed, a time (unlike many other live shows) I’ll always remember, though now more than 25 years in the past.
The PNW scene felt small like that, the more you got into it. I’d even see Calvin at a live show once and introduce myself: he was there to see the same band as me, and had a kind of skittery quality I couldn’t pinpoint as shyness or self-consciousness, maybe both, with his large, wandering eyes and fur-lined jacket, a pair of obscenely large headphones gripping his neck. I just told him how much his music meant to me and he said thanks. And then I walked away feeling dumb.
Or the time I met the singer’s mom from Modest Mouse wearing one of their T-shirts at a Starbucks where she worked, and her telling me her son was Isaac. Or the woman I had lunch with once who was trying to get a job at my office, who said her husband played drums (for Built to Spill) and she’d managed Modest Mouse on their first two albums, when they were so young she had to buy them beer.
The scene felt small, because it was, and the only way you could learn about it was through word of mouth. Through going out and meeting people, going to shows, talking to record store employees, listening to college radio. It was a time rich with surprise.
And maybe that’s what I miss most these days, is the loss of surprise. The organic discovery of inter-connections and influences that used to come from talking to people and making new friends — now that comes from algorithms. From machines or people we don’t know.
With music now so readily available and consumable, has it lost its value — and diminished the value of those making it? When discovery is spoon-fed from technology vs. happened-upon through circumstance? Have we lost the mystery?
Maybe, to play off Calvin’s first band name, the “beat” has happened. What’s next is no mystery.
I was just glad the algorithm led me to Wet Leg long before they won their Grammy! 😀
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Wet Leg. Wow, nothing to say to that. Watched the film Superbad again recently and it reminds me of a kind of infamous scene from that film better not described.
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I can’t bring myself to watch Superbad once!
PS — I envy your Seattle music experience. I was already too old and stuffy in the mid-90s to dig that scene. I was also in London in ’77 and somehow dodged the whole punk thing in favor of old English folk music, though I did catch an early look at Elvis Costello. We get what we get, eh?
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Yeah I can’t say anything good about Superbad I guess. It’s like those 80s locker room comedy films but more so. And no worries on missing the ‘77 punk scene I guess if you had your early taste of EC. Heck I’m just glad I got to see (and meet) Dan Hicks before he died! There’s that! Man he was tall. With a handshake like a gorilla’s.
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I discovered Bon Iver simply by walking into a soap shop in Maine. The recommendations served to me via algorithms have not yet been useful to me.
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Ha! How cool. How many discovered them from that TV show I wonder, where Skinny Love was featured? Or Nick Drake from the VW ad? Marvelous how we discover music I think. Here’s to the soap shops in Maine over algorithms, be damned! Thanks for sharing and for reading.
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It sounds corny, but the first time I heard The Shins was that scene in Jersey State, where Natalie Portman hands Braff her headphones. Bombino and some other Sahara bands I heard an Uber driver playing. Mostly I scan through YouTube videos and online stations to find new stuff, I have to say, every once in a while the browser algorithms send something good my way.
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The algorithms are solid. I hate kind of algorithm-bashing but I’ve been on a distrust of technology rant the more I read about AI. Garden State is a film inspired by a song it would seem and a wonderful example of how far you can take inspiration like that. The Shins album (another great post-grunge Seattle band bTW) is such a wondrous first-time effort too. I don’t think they’ve been able to match the wonder they captured there, and they indirectly opened my mind to The Beach Boys in so doing. Some Zombies there too maybe. Vocals style attribution perhaps to both bands.
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I listen to “Wincing the Night Away” pretty often.
I think listening to Los Lobos years ago, the internet gods sent me Calexico which is appreciated, very decent if not always inspired, but not Los Dinos or Porter. But then The Pogues they suggested Dropkick Murphys and Flogging Molly, I get why but no, unsuccessful suggestions.
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Dexys Midnight Runners would be a better vector off the Pogues. Ever listen to their non-Come On Eileen stuff? It’s marvelous. Hard to not get up and start shimmying about. Agree on “Wincing” but something especially perfect about the first. Feel that way about REM’s Murmur too. Sometimes I wonder if the bands just want it more, are most desperate in that first effort.
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Thank you, no that “Come on Eileen” is the only tune of their’s I know, I’ll go look that up
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Yeah have a gander! I was amazed by what I heard, I mean assuming you’re into that genre of course…would like to picture myself there in the corner of that pub while they’re playing with a meat pie of some sort and a stout. Tapping my knee and so on.
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Interesting. I never had the networking skills to discover music that way. Heard about it from a few close friends, or from magazines, the radio or MTV, the latter three probably using algorithms of their own. Agreed that Pearl Jam was the least interesting of those bands, but just continually surprised all these years later at how good the grunge movement was. Knew it was cool at the time, but the quality of that final blast, of rock’s last stand, continues to amaze me whenever I revisit it.
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Feels not cool to bash on PJ as one of the most seemingly wholesome of the scene, like actual good people, the fact Eddie is one of the last frontman icons still standing (wrap him in bubble wrap). Yeah on the algorithms, 120 minutes exposed me to one of my all-time favorites, the virtually unknown band Felt. Should also acknowledge people less-dialed in to networks benefit more from the algorithms as you suggest here. Truth be told, I’m sorry I missed that scene. Was glad for the one that followed though. Saw PJ twice but man it was that big stadium vibe and no mystery there, for sure.
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Yeah, no disrespect to Eddie and the boys. I actually like and appreciate them more now than I did then. For me they weren’t even grunge until Vitalogy came out. Vs was a sort of bridge to it, and my favorite of theirs (and stop me if I’ve said this before) but that first album was definitely not grunge proper. I don’t know what you call Ten, might need a category of it’s own. Long live longevity, and integrity!
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It was a cool time to still have record stores and watch how they tried to categorize/merchandise Ten, alongside reissues of Back and Black and Appetite for Destruction. But it wasn’t quite that, it was different. Hadn’t thought of “grunge proper” for Ten or how Vitalogy might qualify. The latter I think was the last one I really cared about. But good they’re still active I think and have such a healthy fan base.
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Yes, there are some real PJ die hards out there. More power to ‘em, I say.
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There’s something wholesome about discovery-by-stumbling-upon when it’s from connecting with people that certainly isn’t there when it’s via algorithmisation.
I still use radio a lot because it’s a somewhat haphazard process of discovery that gives me some limited control over my musical destiny. It seemed more wholesome up until now, but now you have me asking,
‘Is it?’
But if the health of the local live music scene is an indicator, I think things are still okay for stumblers.
Thanks
DD
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I love radio, still. Glad we have a good independent one out here in Seattle called KEXP. They are keeping it real for sure. There’s a Melbourne-based radio station from the 70s I happened upon in my research for this post today, related to a “cassette fanzine” idea and station called 3RRR. Ever heard of that I wonder?
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I know RRR one of a few local stations on my car pre-set.
I’ve had Internet radios for years. Pre the Ukraine invasion, I listened a lot to Radio Caprice out of Russia. Incredible range of stations. But I’ve shifted to NAIM in the UK, Czech radio and some jazz stations out of Japan since that war began. BTW, a terrific jazz scene in Japan.
Anyhoo, I shall look for KEXP to listen to in the car.
Be well and do good.
DD
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Well gosh what a connoisseur of radio, I had no idea David! Peruse the programming on KEXP to see if there’s one that suits your eclectic tastes. There’s a jazz theater overnight on our Sundays that might line up with your Monday time zone. Because it’s 12-5 am our time I’ve only heard it at the tail end once or twice, and wasn’t my best coherent-wise at the time.
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Will do. Thanks Bill.
Living the stumble upon dream!
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An easy interface at KEXP…and will probably catch the next show.
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Yeah their app is pretty good and streaming archive also. Glad to hear! Good folk there, though they are heading into one of their pledge drives soon I think.
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If only the $Au was worth having in the US…
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Hmmm…cassette fanzine sounds quite interesting. Sounds like worthwhile research. Anyway, I also will need to explore 3RRR.
As a fellow KEXP aficionado, I appreciate the reference. Good folks.
Now I’m thinking about the old Seattle music scene and magazines like The Rocket and Stranger. Ah, the 90s!
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So cool Carl! Fun to think about The Stranger and The Rocket too. Glad to hear you’re a KEXP aficionado. My favorite show is the Sunday morning one from 6-8 and I also like Gabriel T’s show from 5-7 weekdays. Though it took some getting used to, waking up to hip hop like that!
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Chas’s comment on cassette tapes was a terse ‘Too hissy’.
He’s moved on.
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Ha! I can imagine! Can be hit or miss with the tapes. I’m glad for those I still have and have held onto.
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I’ve a few mix tapes that I might still play if my deck had not seized up last year.
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I love Alex’s Pacific Notions, too.
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PS No 2 son, Chas is coming over here today for a whack on the golf driving range near my place. I shall talk with him about cassette fanzine, as I think that is one of his regular listening spots.
DD
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So cool! Have fun with Mr. Chas as it were…
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I was poised to become a huge Modest Mouse fan. I loved Moon over Antarctica, and I even list it in my 10 most influential albums, but I never followed through. I think that was the last album I ever bought. Everything since has been just songs.
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That Antarctica record is quite something and funny they use the album art to kind of connote their perceived deal with the devil, moving to a big record contract. All that comes before it is as good if not better IMO. Especially Lonesome Crowded West and particularly as an album.
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K Records is steeped in nostalgia for me, too. As is the Kill Rock Stars label. John Peel and DIY labels saved my life growing up in a small town in Scotland. A cliché, but true. Calvin’s distinct growl still makes me smile. Like Lurch from the Addams Family discovered postpunk!
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That’s hysterical, the Lurch part! I thought of you too as I wrote a post before this roughly centered around The Fall, but a pen pal I had with whom I traded tapes during that early internet period. I guess it’s that Fall piece I suggested we trade writing ourselves, have a look please if you’re able! Adore John Peel myself; too bad MES didn’t have more respect for Peel at JP’s passing.
I spent a month touring around Scotland one year by car with my kids, stayed in about 6 or 7 towns and some small (like Stranraer for example). Which one is your home town?
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There is something to be said for discovering music the way you describe, a friend drops a suggestion here, a song lays in a coffee shop there. And then you buy the album or cd and discover all sorts of good stuff that never makes it on the radio.
But …
But … through the convergence of satellite radio and Spotify, I have discovered soooooo many more artists and songs than I ever could have the old-fashioned way.
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Yes to the but, couldn’t agree more. Maybe there’s a pattern or common denominator here related to “automated convenience replacing something essential in the manual.” Maybe not…food for thought and fun to ponder eh? Nostalgia can obscure reality quite well too, I know that’s true for me.
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There was a certain fun to getting together with folks and listening to mix tapes/cds. But I agree that the algorithms do have their place and add value.
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Yeah after thinking it through more I find it interesting we’re a generation that knows both. Kind of like the mixed-tape, hand-curated and the genomic kind we first experienced with Pandora right? I feel a deeper connection to the music real people turned me on to I think. It’s not either/or of course, but curious to think on since our generation has one leg in each world perhaps. Or did….
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Playlists – the new mixtapes.
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Yeah I think I’m just being sentimental but I don’t seem them as the same. Could you compare it to an email vs handwritten note or letter (like playlists to mixtapes)? I dunno, I think our generation straddles both worlds and man that other one is gone. There’s also a different kind of commitment putting a song onto a tape, or handwriting words on paper, than the digital and ever-editable. This is a sad old song that’s been sung before.
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Now you’re making me sad!!!
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I miss paper maps.
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Yeah something poetic to the thought you can see the whole territory on a road atlas vs a goddamned sliver. Now I sound curmudgeonly! I’m going to stream some TV now.
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Nah. Get your VHS out and … wait … rabbit ears!!!
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Ha ha that! Yes!
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A key benefit of a playlist over a mix tape: you can share it with dozens of people.
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That’s right! All these devilish payoffs for sure.
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I must have just missed this whole era, it does sound like I missed out. When I left high school, Kazaa was the thing. Then it was Soundcloud. Now, I just stream everything on Spotify, although I do occasionally collect interesting music out in the wild by using Soundhound. What technology enables us to do eh.
But my taste in music seems to be just niche enough that I almost certainly never would have found the stuff I love today, so I’m happy. Seems like Seattle was the place to be though.
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Hey thanks for the note cj. The more I think about it, and what’s unique or salient about the different eras, as you describe, is this idea of scarcity: when we started streaming, scarcity went out the window. We got access to basically infinite content virtually for free, and for me, as someone who purchased and experimented more tentatively with music (given pre-streaming constraints) I feel like I valued music more — the connections I made through it were more hand-wrought and thereby more satisfying. I wonder if there’s a comparison to route-finding, and learning how to get somewhere yourself vs. going on autopilot and using the GPS. I think the broader tech theme for me is that we perform trade-offs when we make a perceived leap forward, often through convenience, but invariably we leave behind things we’re not aware of at the time, or which become moot I guess to other, future generations. That’s maybe just the nature of technology and transformation. Few of us know how to start a fire these days, right? Thanks for letting me riff at you and be well.
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You make a good point about having more appreciation for it after having to work for it. It’s not exactly the same as you describe, but I do remember saving up my “hard-earned” money from my after school job to buy CDs, which I then listened to ad nauseam. In college I’d spend hours trawling through different blogs and websites, sampling and looking for favourites, and did meet a couple of people at shows who introduced me to a new band or two. (RIP Frightened Rabbit)
But I never really did it through, say, record stores or a network, and as I got older the blogs dried up, and Soundcloud became a graveyard of rubbish, and I had less time and patience to spend hunting. If I didn’t have an algorithm suggesting things to me I probably wouldn’t find anything new. Agreed that it’s not quite the same as back when.
In the past year I have started collecting vinyl, but that stuff’s expensive nowadays. Only the best go into that collection… so actually, maybe it comes full circle at some point.
Thanks for riffing, be well too.
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So cool, thanks for sharing all that. The vinyl boomerang phenomenon is interesting too and like you, I collect and purchase the same (only the best). But rarely sit and bother to enjoy that way. Streaming an algorithm now and Bowie’s Soul Love just came on, killing it.
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Tapping into the scene is great if you’re close to the scene. For us kids (and later adults) who grew up isolated from any of that, the internet has been a godsend. The algorithm has sent good things my way. The key is not to become slave to the algorithm. I like to fuck with the algorithm by going from M83 to Leonard Cohen (which, come to think of it, may not be such a romantic leap).
I may be repeating myself, but my high school friend Ted used to subscribe to the punk zine Maximum Rock and Roll, and he’d get punk cassettes in the mail. So much trash, but sometimes good stuff. He was committed but he had to work at it.
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Yeah there’s a whole thing now about keeping our algorithms clean isn’t there? Mine is a mish-mash with my kids’ tastes thrown in there, so I get a lot of sidestream Taylor Swift and Lana del Rey, but I’m good with all that. Kind of like they’re with me even when they’re not, via the algorithm.
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